Toads Over 70: Norman (INTERVIEW)
“It’s not the money or what you make in life, it’s what you make with your own two hands.”
photo by John Laude
Norman is the kind of person who will greet you with a smile and is always looking for ways to give back to the people around him. I wanted to interview him because he is one of the people that make Joplin feel special, I hope you enjoy getting to know him more and all the stories he has to tell, enjoy.
interview by Theresa Schorr, august 2019
illustration by Backspacecadet
Did you grow up in Joplin?
Norman “I was born here in Joplin, in 1956, but I grew up in Carthage with my adopted family. My grandfather told my mom to get rid of me, so the first time I met my mother was at Memorial hall in Joplin when I was four. she had long black hair that went clear down to her hips. No cause her dad, my grandfather, told her to get rid of me. Well he had anger and that anger went into me, so when I grew up I had always been mad, I didn’t know why. Later on down the line I found out my adoptive mother was a Kickapoo Indian, and she just knew that I had some kind of indian in me.because I would always be so angry. One day my adoptive dad got me kinda ticked off, and I had a bowl of cereal and I took it and dumped it right in his lap.
Did you go to school in Carthage?
Norman ”Well I went through college down in Carthage one time. I had one teacher that was supposed to teach history and one day I was there and I was excited to learn something and then the teacher said ‘alright class, put your books down and get out your crochet.’ and I thought what are you talking about? I want to know more about history! Well I had to learn how to crochet. I even made my adopted dad a cap one time.”
How would you say this area has changed over the years?
Norman ”I remember in my 20s I used to come up here to Joplin and go to Northpark Mall where they had a trading post with all kinds of Indian stuff and I loved it. I found a ring and he sold it to me for $35 which was a lot more money back then. I found indian cups there and one time I found Cherokee language tapes so I got them because I was trying to learn my native language. I remember three words from those tapes.
The first one was Osiyo which means hello, second was Kawi which means coffee, and the third one Gadu which means bread. I found out one time that I am 98% cherokee and 2% Cheyanne Indian.”
Did you ever get to meet anyone else from your family?
Norman “My wife found out that I had an Uncle who lived in Pittsburg, he asked us to move up there with him and so we found a place and moved up there somewhere around 1999 or 2000. Then we found out that my Uncle had cancer, and I didn’t know that. We both loved animals, If I didn’t have cash he would buy me cigarettes and if he didn’t have cash I would buy him cigarettes, we just went back and forth like that. After he passed away from cancer, my wife told me that he was actually my half brother and I just didn’t know. Well I have a half sister in Pittsburg. She works over there at a cafe and every once in awhile I will go over and visit her. When my half brother passed away my sister got this old civil war cap handed down to her from him, and she didn’t want it. Since she didn’t want it I asked her if I could have it and so she gave it to me and I still have it. Every once in awhile I will take it out and wear it and I figure that my half brother is always watching over me. So my wife found out a lot of things about my family and that I have a huge family that live all over.”
How did you meet your wife?
While I grew up I always seemed to be looking for someone or somebody but I didn’t know who. One time my friend introduced me to his girlfriend and something in the back of my head told me to stay with her, not to leave her, so I listened to that inner voice. Well, he turned around and hit her and made her cry. I got so mad and I told him if he did that again I would kill him. I stayed with her for a couple weeks and told her to stop taking her medication that was making her not think straight. After a few weeks she started coming out of it. I still stayed with her and little by little we found out that we had a lot of things in common. One time she wanted me to stay with her over at her place, so I came over and spent the night with her, and she stuck me on the other side of the bed next to the window.
She didn’t tell me that the window had leaks in it so the next morning my whole rear end felt like ice.
So I told her ‘on Christmas why don’t you come and spend a couple nights with me.’ That first night I left to use the restroom and came back and she was out cold, the next morning she said ‘that was the first night I’ve ever been so cozy and warm.’ We stuck together for about a year and a half, maybe two, when one day she popped the question, and said ‘well aren’t you going to marry me?’ and I said ‘ok, pick the time, the date, the month, and the year for the wedding and I’ll be there.’ and it was on my aunts birthday June the 4th of 1994 when we got married. Her mother made an old fashioned wedding dress, and I brought her a dozen roses. I was in my tuxedo and cowboy boots and we went to a Mormon church in Carthage. The preacher got done preaching and he asked me if I had her wedding band and if she had one for me, the one I had was from my grandmother on my moms side. My wife was very religious.”
photo by John Laude
What religion did she practice?
Norman ”We believe in God, but we also had our ancient religion, our Indian religion. A lot of people believe in God, but us Indians don’t call him God we call him the great spirit. On this land I can remember when animals used to roam all over, and that’s how I met my first friend, the great buffalo. One time I let him loose, I was short at the time and I couldn’t grab his hair on the sides so I grabbed his beard and that’s how I got him out. There was a big bluff area and I got him out and brought him up there. We would open our minds and our hearts and we would speak to one another. He said to me, `What about you?’ and I said, ‘Don’t you worry about me, as long as you’re safe, I know I’ll be around. And if you think I’m not safe then stick around and if there’s a hunting party coming towards you make a big swing around the other direction.”
When was all of this?
Norman ”That was way back before colonials ever landed on this continent. Anyway, he was worried about me, so I told him to keep an eye on me if he wanted. My father came out to kill the buffalo and saw that the buffalo was gone. He got so mad that he chased me all around and then I ran inside and hid behind my mom. Well, he was furious and made the decision that I should be put to death by starvation. Eventually I fell asleep and the next morning I woke up and didn’t hear nothing, I got up and went outside and saw that I was the only one there, everyone was gone. And I thought ‘oh wow, here's where the trial starts.’ You know how a thunder rolls, well I heard something that sounded like that, there were no clouds but I kept on hearing it.
Then I saw something black off in the distance, and when it started getting pretty close I saw that it was my friend the great buffalo.
He came back for me. He came over and sat down and gave out a big ole snort and looked me right in the eyes and said ‘listen I will carry you.’ and I got onto his back and he carried me. I'm not sure how many days but it was for quite a ways. We finally stopped and I by then I had run out of food and I was so hungry and tired I just slid off of him. Then there was a beautiful female buffalo that showed up, I looked her in the eyes and said ‘please I don’t want to die of starvation, I’m hungry.’ She laid down and told me, ‘here have some of my milk.’ and I got so full that I fell asleep. When I woke up my muscles were hurting and the female buffalo saw that I was hurting really bad so she let out a huge roar. I don’t know what happened exactly but pretty soon I saw a big huge bear. and I was scared, I thought I was going to be eaten, but then there was a white glow that covered the bear and it stood straight up and turned into a human woman. She came over and looked at me, reached out her hands and put them on my legs, but instead of her hands being human hands they were like bear claws going up and down my legs. It felt like a warm blanket and the pain started to ease off and finally quit. Anyway, later on it was getting close to winter and it was snowing, and I looked out and saw my friend the great buffalo laying out on the ground. I took off running and went to him and he said ‘I’m old and I'm dying. Promise me that when I die you will use my body to eat so you don’t starve.’ I begged and begged him not to make me promise him but he kept insisting that I do, so I made the promise and then he said ‘you’re going to have another friend. Look behind you.’ Behind me was a timber wolf, he was huge. His coat was grey and on his side there was like a shape of a tooth in his fur.
Then my buffalo friend died and I cried and cried. I did what I promised him and took a piece of his hindquarters and I carried that up to that timber wolf and I laid it down and pushed it to the wolf and kept my nose to the ground. He came over and took his nuzzle and raised my chin up and looked into my eyes and asked ’why did you do that?’ and I said ‘I want some friends.’ and sure enough we became friends and I named him Greytooth. Then I went ahead and cut my buffalo friends body up. I took his meat and I put it inside my shelter and on top and it made it pretty nice and warm in there. Greytooth came over and looked inside and I said ‘come on in.’ and he said ‘no not yet i’ll be right back.’ he came back with an entire wolfpack. And there was one type of wolf, she was huge and was nice and she was out in the cold and Greytooth didn’t want her to come in.
I looked at him and said ‘come on Greytooth let her in, I don't want anyone dying in the winter.’
She came over and got right next to me. Greytooth and her took care of me. Greytooth taught me how to read footprints on the ground and I have never forgotten it. Anyway, All of my past lives and experiences, it’s like a door opened to me “
Anything else you learned growing up that you would like to share?
Norman ”People don’t seem to understand, it’s not the money or what you make in life, it’s what you make with your own two hands. There’s more things to put my mind to than money, like this walking stick, it used to be a tree limb.
I took all the bark off and the little knots and sanded this down, then I got a picture of an eagle and I carved this eagle right there on top. And then I took some leather, beads and feathers and put it on there. It’s good and sturdy and it don’t bend or break or anything.”
photo by John Laude
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